CoastrGlxy
Posts: 358
Registered: 5/23/2005
Rank: Silver Critic
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 8/2/2005 10:24:02 AM
Anyone ever ride an Intamin Woodie? Looks like there's only two in the world (until '06 when SFGADV gets one). They are suppposed to very smooth because of the pre-fab track. And RCPro did a great Top 10 Intamin's article where "Colosss" in Germany placed 6th and "Balder" in Sweden came in at 3rd!
http://www.rollercoasterpro.com/top10/intamin/
In terms of their lineup. SFGADV could be getting the key ingredient to become the most powerful theme park in the world!!! (Insert evil laughter here)
What do you guys think? Could a signature, unique on this continent woodie and the tallest coaster in the world give SFGADV the coaster crown? Or is it just an interesting coaster addition?
Message updated 8/2/2005 10:24:53 AM by CoastrGlxy
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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 8/2/2005 12:57:59 PM
There wood coaster look good and there trains are interesting very none traditional. anyways I agree this coaster will help out the parks solection greatly.
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PeterD
Posts: 86
Registered: 7/22/2005
Rank: Senior Critic
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8/2/2005 1:03:51 PM
They'll probably move closer than any other park to taking Cedar Point's crown, but they just won't be there yet.
Blue Streak - new ride
Cedar Creek Mine Ride - Runaway Train
Disaster Transport - Skull Mountain?
Magnum XL-200 - Nitr0
Mantis - Medusa
Mean Streak - Rolling Thunder
Raptor - Batman: The Ride
Top Thrill Dragster - Kingda Ka
Wicked Twister - The Chiller
Wildcat
Corkscrew
Gemini
Iron Dragon
Millennium Force
I've never been to Cedar Point, so I tried my best to make an accurate comparison.
I'm not sure how Superman: Ultimate Flight and the Great American Scream Machine would compare to the remaining rides, but as you can see, there is still some ground to make up. Both parks will still be a great place to visit, but I don't think Great Adventure will take the crown.
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Swimace
Posts: 5916
Registered: 8/28/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/2/2005 1:45:37 PM
Balder is held as one of the top airtime wooden coasters in the world. You can tell from a POV that it's almost constant ejector airtime. I wish I could ride that monster.
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CoastrGlxy
Posts: 358
Registered: 5/23/2005
Rank: Silver Critic
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8/2/2005 2:15:50 PM
Nice ride-for-ride comparison, PeterD. If SFGADV won't be there in quantity yet, what about quality? CP's been making their coaster collection for years and now in '05 has some pretty dated attractions. Great Adventure on the other hand has what appears to be a pretty state-of-the-art collection including 4 B&M's and 2 launch coasters (one dueling, one height champ).
I've never been to CP, and I'd like the opinion of someone who's been to both parks, but do rides like Iron Dragon, Corkscrew, Wildcat, and Gemini give CP the edge? Esp. with the new woodie having the potential to be as good as 2 or even 3 average or sub-par woodies. It's the classic case of quality vs. quantity. Thoughts?
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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8/2/2005 4:01:47 PM
Put
Ultimate flight - melenium force (new designs)
GASM - Corkscrew (same companie/style)
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WAR2174
Posts: 1067
Registered: 3/6/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/3/2005 2:35:55 AM
Having a major wooden roller coaster would boost the "cred" of SFGA's coasters. However, with so many wooden coasters being built all of a sudden, SF looks more like a bandwagon jumper than an innovator. I am not sure that it would stand out over the mass of woodies coming out next year. It would have to be stellar. I still think that Cedar Point holds an edge based on it's originality. They seem to build a certain type before anyone else. Even if the next is taller or longer, they hold the distinction of being first. They also have coasters that are extremely unique. SFGA has a few clones and the original floorless which gives it props. But they seem to always be the brides maid with other types. Quick for instance, does a park that big really only need a Batman clone? They really should have a unique invert. No question though, over the past year or two, SFGA has closed the gap quickly with Cedar Point and really is the biggest threat now instead of Magic Mountain.
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PeterD
Posts: 86
Registered: 7/22/2005
Rank: Senior Critic
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8/3/2005 10:14:03 AM
Quote:
WAR2174 said:
Quick for instance, does a park that big really only need a Batman clone? They really should have a unique invert.
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I agree with your comments throughout most of the post, but this part is a bit questionable. You have to take into account when the ride was built. At the time of its construction, it was one of the best inverted coasters in the world (along with its other clones). Amusement parks weren't as popular 13 years ago, so SFI didn't think that enthusiasts would travel around the country and realize that this is a clone. Now it’s too late for another inverted coaster.
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CoastrGlxy
Posts: 358
Registered: 5/23/2005
Rank: Silver Critic
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8/3/2005 2:46:58 PM
Quote:
WAR2174 said:
I still think that Cedar Point holds an edge based on it's originality. They seem to build a certain type before anyone else. Even if the next is taller or longer, they hold the distinction of being first. They also have coasters that are extremely unique. |
I pretty much agree with your comments. CP will most likely retain the crown for a while. I think I just like to cheer for the "underdog" and feel personally that CP might be a bit overhyped sometimes as the center of the coaster universe or something. If SFGADV can pull out a top tier woodie (we already know it'll be unique) and revamp w/ the resort and other improvements, CP will at least have company at the top in a few years.
Message updated 8/3/2005 2:47:40 PM by CoastrGlxy
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WAR2174
Posts: 1067
Registered: 3/6/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/3/2005 3:08:44 PM
Quote:
PeterD said:
I agree with your comments throughout most of the post, but this part is a bit questionable. You have to take into account when the ride was built. At the time of its construction, it was one of the best inverted coasters in the world (along with its other clones). Amusement parks weren't as popular 13 years ago, so SFI didn't think that enthusiasts would travel around the country and realize that this is a clone. Now it’s too late for another inverted coaster. |
I understand what you are saying, however that is what was so messed up with the park to begin with. The park is between America's largest and fifth largest cities, and yet it seemed to be forgotten for a while. They got some great stuff like Nitro and Medusa, but that wasn't enough to seperate the park from the pack. Someone at Six Flags finally realized the potential they have there. Now they have improved theming and overall beauty, and have added coasters that will give it attention from around the world.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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8/3/2005 4:27:30 PM
I could never se SFMM being a threat to CP. it was just too far away. SFGAdv has always been the SFI park with the most CP like pull.
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Timberman
Posts: 845
Registered: 9/21/2004
Rank: Gold Critic
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8/5/2005 12:05:16 AM
I've never ridden one of these Intamin pre-fab wooden coasters before, but the most common reaction I've seen is that they are as smooth as steel. To me, that's like making a popsickle that tastes like a hotdog. What's the point?
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CoastrGlxy
Posts: 358
Registered: 5/23/2005
Rank: Silver Critic
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8/5/2005 10:17:14 AM
I think the point Timberman is to offer something different. The pre-fab coasters will never replace the traditional type, but it still gives us something new to experience. It seems that Balder offers a ton of airtime. You wouldn't enjoy an airtime marathon with out your fillings being shook out? I would.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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8/5/2005 12:30:59 PM
I think this ovvers a high end coaster in less space. that is important in many parks.
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WAR2174
Posts: 1067
Registered: 3/6/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/5/2005 6:11:32 PM
A pre-fab coaster sounds like a very European thing to do. Americans like for their coasters to be rough and unique. I'm sure this will still be a big hit though.
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BobFunland
Posts: 7962
Registered: 8/9/2001
Rank: Site Moderator
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8/5/2005 6:18:38 PM
Quote:
WAR2174 said:
A pre-fab coaster sounds like a very European thing to do. Americans like for their coasters to be rough and unique. I'm sure this will still be a big hit though. |
Not the average park-goer though. They generaly prefer a glass-smooth ride, which is why these rides will probably take off. I'm with Timberman, I usually like a good jolting in a woodie, but I know we are in the minority.
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Where are the seatbelts?
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hrrytraver
Posts: 1270
Registered: 7/16/2005
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/6/2005 9:46:21 AM
bobf- yes this new move seems consistent with the times. but its strange and disappointing. for instance, take GCI, who seem to take most of their design cues from the classic twister makers, fred church and traver (er...me). yet they keep making their rides smoother and more digestable to the public that won't order anything off the menu with a "spicy" star or two next to it. their forthcoming ride, which takes some design aspects from the rye airplane, is sure to be a silky smooth one. yet the original was well known as a three star menu item. and wood nuts everywhere stare at pictures of airplane's phlanx of wood and drop tears down into their copies of "the incredible scream machine" lamenting the loss and some may even get desperate enough look for time machines on ebay like the uncle in "napoleon dynamite". so now we get the family version. i think perhaps parks could adapt a chinese menu rating system- no stars equals family ride, "1" star equals a little spice, "two" stars equals noticable spice, perhaps indigestion and flatulence, and "three" stars equals definite flatulence, sweat, and a big a** whooping. off the hook nutball rides attract park goers too. i think parks could continue to add some real nasty nutcase rides mixed in with with the polite ones and there would still be the same big draw into the parks. the difference would be nobody could whine, because the sign at the queue said, "this ride shakes. it will kick you on the a**, you will have nightmares." lots of people would come just to watch the loony diehards riding the things.
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"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things we know we don't know.
But, there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we don't know we don't know."
-donald rumsfeld during a pentagon briefing
Message updated 8/6/2005 9:48:14 AM by hrrytraver
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Timberman
Posts: 845
Registered: 9/21/2004
Rank: Gold Critic
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8/6/2005 1:01:24 PM
Let me put it this way. As a young kid in the 1970s, I didn't necessarily look at roller coasters as a fun diversion. Mostly they were a means for me to prove to myself that I wasn't a coward in a way calculated to minimize bloodshed and involvement with the authoritah. If the rides I had ridden back then were all like Lightening Racer or Nitro -- perfectly decent, fun rides that I have no problem admitting I enjoy -- then I would have been cheated out of the invaluable growth experience of feeling like I was staring down death, still forging ahead, taking my licks, and then realizing that conquering something demanding and scary is one of life's most vital and enriching accomplishments. I have no problem with family-oriented rides. But what I really love are the rides that people approach with genuine trepidation, the kind that can give a kid the same sort of stomach ache he gets when he knows the bully will be waiting by his locker after class. I want to see the sort of rides that require a summoning of courage, that people abandon at the head of the queue, that ARE as bad as you think. We owe it to the kids to provide experiences that won't leave them maimed or dead but will leave them shaken, rattled, and reinvigorated. And what about the old guys with families and loan payments (but without insurance) who can't afford to be laid up with broken bones, pulled groins, or sprained ankles from boxing, skydiving, or jumping out of helicopters on skis? How many beers would otherwise be required to extinguish that longing for adventure? How many hours can a guy stare at a computer screen or write TPS reports before his spirit starts bending to the point where his low-fat mocha latte with Equal becomes the high-point of his workday? How is he supposed to look his son in the eye knowing that the most frightening thing he does in life is to watch on the evening news what the less-privileged and more-angry are doing? What's going to stir that old guy's blood and still leave him fit for a 10-hour day at the office the next morning? I don't want aristocratic, European-style roller coasters. I want untamed-frontier-throw-off-the-monarchy-reinvent-government-claw-your-way-out-of-poverty-subdue-the-land-free-the-slaves-save-the-world-from-fascism-and-send-a-man-to-the-moon-style roller coasters. Trees capture and maintain solar energy. When a tree is felled and roughly hewn into an amusement device, it imparts its cosmic, life-giving energy to those who partake of it. The more refined the wood, the further it is from this vital state of nature. The birch-bark canoes carrying Indian braves into battle weren't made from pre-fab particle board, the Chicken McNuggets of the lumber kingdom. Do we want our youth and middle-aged has-beens gliding into the future on Chicken McNuggets? Heaven forfend!
Message updated 8/6/2005 3:21:55 PM by Timberman
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CoastrGlxy
Posts: 358
Registered: 5/23/2005
Rank: Silver Critic
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8/6/2005 6:42:36 PM
That was quite a soliloquy! It sounds like a credo for woodie fanatics. But like you said you were a kid growing up in the 70s, so it’s based on your experiences.
As a coaster fan in late 90s, I was intimidated by the steel giants of the time. Steel coasters can give an exhilarating experience too. You won't feel like you just went a few rounds w/ Tyson afterwards, but talk to people who have ridden Sheikra, Kingda Ka, or even an exceptional hyper coaster like Nitro and I think they get some of that release that you're talking about. I had that genuine trepidation and ache in my stomach for steel giants. Height's a mother! And it can be pretty intimidating too. But your name is “Timberman” so . . . .
But I see what you’re saying about woodie’s that beat you up and take your “lunch money”. I think I first experienced that on the Georgia Cyclone and then later on Phoenix (more for airtime). I totally underestimated both of those woodies, but they kicked my butt and earned my respect.
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CoastrGlxy
Posts: 358
Registered: 5/23/2005
Rank: Silver Critic
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8/6/2005 7:43:18 PM
That was quite a soliloquy! It sounds like a credo for woodie fanatics. But like you said you were a kid growing up in the 70s, so it’s based on your experiences.
As a coaster fan in late 90s, I was intimidated by the steel giants of the time. Steel coasters can give an exhilarating experience too. You won't feel like you just went a few rounds w/ Tyson afterwards, but talk to people who have ridden Sheikra, Kingda Ka, or even an exceptional hyper coaster like Nitro and I think they get some of that release that you're talking about. I had that genuine trepidation and ache in my stomach for steel giants. Height's a mother! And it can be pretty intimidating too. But your name is “Timberman” so . . . .
But I see what you’re saying about woodie’s that beat you up and take your “lunch money”. I think I first experienced that on the Georgia Cyclone and then later on Phoenix (more for airtime). I totally underestimated both of those woodies, but they kicked my butt and earned my respect.
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hrrytraver
Posts: 1270
Registered: 7/16/2005
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/6/2005 8:08:32 PM
i should also like to add that wood coasters have that elusive "personality" factor, and "ride personality" may be on the endangered species list it seems. if i disect my ideas about what "personality" is in a ride i can come up with some suggestions pretty easily. firsly, the rides wood coasters give do change quite a bit from time to time, giving it a subtle but noticable "organic" quality. being a huge fan of vinyl records, for instance, i don't think the difference between vinyl and CD is overstated. i know the difference and vinyl sounds better. it's "warmer" and i like "warmer." wood feels "warmer" to me, and although that is subjective, i'm not alone in my feeling that way and i grew up appreciating the difference. you can really sense the speed when you are absorbing shock from the track's imperfect bumps and joints and transitions in your buttocks. you can feel that the ride and the structure is heaving along with you. i also toss in the fact that wood coasters, especially the pre-90s ones, have a very tangible human inspiration to their creation, in spite of the fact that they obviously have a lot of math and a very specific conception to them. they are not a stream of conscious expression of creativity like a killer guitar solo, but they do seem a lot more ramshackle and reliant on magic to make them work then their modern counterparts. on the 1920s masterpieces and the later allen or vettel rides the math and all the conceptualization was done by hand. the thought process is evident and alive in the ride. sometimes the eraser marks are evident in the ride too and this is where some of the "roughness" and "personality" comes across. when you ride a wood coaster your entire nervous system passes through the designer's logic and creative process. allow me to now jump ahead to the present just so i can clearly state where i see the difference between then and now is. i have read several interviews with werner stengl. the guy is pretty serious. but lets say even if he wasn't a teutonic stoic and was instead a jolly irishman he would still rely greatly on powerful computer programs to design his rides. and he is also basically at the mercy of his clients anyhow as to what he can and should do once he and his buro sit down to hash out a new ride. so there's three things right there that IMO, shave off bits of the "human organism" from the creative process--1) straightlaced aristocrat designer drives benz to office in switzerland 2) computer engineered parabolas and perfected lines, removing the "organic" quailty of a human creating his (her)lines out of the dark crevices of his (her) mind and 3) very rich and forceful clients who don't want maverick or "quirky" whimsy applied to their ride. i know this is not even close to being the same world as the old wood coaster days, but i think that poetry and creativity can still factor into ride design, and it still does, i realize, but in less and less number.
Message updated 8/6/2005 8:14:40 PM by hrrytraver
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/6/2005 9:09:05 PM
Some very nice personality tests for our coasters.
I have visited both parks within the last 12 months and I find their lineups and rides to be very similar.
IMO GADV could be an equal park if they could match CP capacity. My day at GADV was totally ruined by ineffective ride management. If they cure that I could see them being equal.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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8/8/2005 6:20:11 PM
Quote:
WAR2174 said:
A pre-fab coaster sounds like a very European thing to do. Americans like for their coasters to be rough and unique. I'm sure this will still be a big hit though. |
How deferant if a prefab from a steel suported. it still changes the ride.
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Miracles can be made with a rock!
"Get a good idea and stay with it. dog it and work at it untile it's done, and don right." Walt Disney
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hrrytraver
Posts: 1270
Registered: 7/16/2005
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/8/2005 7:19:43 PM
Quote:
mrceagle said:
How deferant if a prefab from a steel suported. it still changes the ride. |
you raise a good point. however i think track material is more vital to the ride than the support structure material. the CI cylone has steel supports, and i think the greatness of that ride sits more in the track and track design than the support material. steel is still pretty soft and on steel supported woodies it is buttressed the same as the regular woody scaffolding style, letting it sway quite a bit. for example, i just got an aluminum frame road bike after riding a steel frame for 15 years. the aluminum is harder no doubt. steel is pretty springy by comparison. i wouldn't say that the cyclone feels less "woody" than the hershey comet for instance. but if one starts to apply new technologies for tracking wood coasters, inevitably the ride will be changed. until now the tracking technique on woodies hasn't changed much in 70 or so years.............
Message updated 8/8/2005 7:28:48 PM by hrrytraver
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WAR2174
Posts: 1067
Registered: 3/6/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/9/2005 12:16:59 AM
All I mean is that Europeans seem to like things that are "clean and sharp" (for a lack of better terms). Look at their new buildings and cars. Very sleek. A wooden coaster built from scratch to fit a specific area is how American coasters started. European coaster companies introduced the smooth (for the most part) coasters. Ex, American coaster company; Arrow. European company; B&M. Don't get me wrong, I love what they have done for coasters, but a big, rough wooden coaster seems purely American.
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Timberman
Posts: 845
Registered: 9/21/2004
Rank: Gold Critic
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8/9/2005 12:21:39 AM
Quote:
CoastrGlxy said:
That was quite a soliloquy! It sounds like a credo for woodie fanatics. But like you said you were a kid growing up in the 70s, so it’s based on your experiences.
As a coaster fan in late 90s, I was intimidated by the steel giants of the time. Steel coasters can give an exhilarating experience too. You won't feel like you just went a few rounds w/ Tyson afterwards, but talk to people who have ridden Sheikra, Kingda Ka, or even an exceptional hyper coaster like Nitro and I think they get some of that release that you're talking about. I had that genuine trepidation and ache in my stomach for steel giants. Height's a mother! And it can be pretty intimidating too. But your name is “Timberman” so . . . .
But I see what you’re saying about woodie’s that beat you up and take your “lunch money”. I think I first experienced that on the Georgia Cyclone and then later on Phoenix (more for airtime). I totally underestimated both of those woodies, but they kicked my butt and earned my respect. |
I see your point. I guess the difference for me, however, is that most modern hypercoasters are only intimidating UNTIL you ride them, after which I usually find myself saying, "Gee, no wonder all these eight-year-olds are on this thing with me." Rides like the Cyclone, Son of Beast, Wildcat, Avalanche and even some steelies (like the original Steel Phantom) maintain the intimidation factor ride after ride. You're that much more nervous KNOWING what's ahead of you. Nitro and Millennium Force are fun rides, no doubt, but they are exactly the sort of rides that even the coaster-adverse can enjoy because they make absolutely no demands on their riders other than requiring the intial courage to board. A ride in the back seat of the Cyclone, however, will quickly separate the true-believers from the casual park-goers. But at the end of the day, I say, "Live and let live." If I can get even one Avalanche for every five B&M hyprs that are built, I'll still be pretty happy.
Message updated 8/9/2005 12:24:05 AM by Timberman
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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8/9/2005 2:17:01 AM
I am only nervous about Son of Beast because I hate to pee blood. I find no ride intimidating after the first ride, but I do find that a select few give me a rush each time.(timbers, phoenix,MF, AC, raging bull, good high tower rides). After riding Predator at Darien Lake Timberman I can no longer agree with your wood statement and true believers. That ride is rough and not that great yet people were saying it was fun and waiting for the back seat. Myself a true enthusiast found it to be one of the worst I have ridden. Most people will have the courage to reride anything unless it sucks and some people will even do that. Course my opinion is when you are doing something that is safer then driving your car the intimidation factor is lucky to be there for one ride. Heck I have not been intimidated by anything since MF and Drop Zone.
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Timberman
Posts: 845
Registered: 9/21/2004
Rank: Gold Critic
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8/9/2005 12:15:37 PM
Your first and last sentences seem inconsistent to me, coaster05. You haven't been intimidated by anything since MF and Drop Zone but you're afraid SOB will make you pee blood? I don't see how the two statements can be reconciled.
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CoastrGlxy
Posts: 358
Registered: 5/23/2005
Rank: Silver Critic
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8/9/2005 12:59:43 PM
Quote:
Timberman said:
Nitro and Millennium Force are fun rides, no doubt, but they are exactly the sort of rides that even the coaster-adverse can enjoy because they make absolutely no demands on their riders other than requiring the intial courage to board. |
I think this is all boils down a huge case of "different strokes". No matter how many arguments or points are made. I agree w/ Coaster05 that woodies like Predator are nearly unrideable and shouldn't be on some pedastal just because they're "rough woodies". (But I'm more of steel fan overall) It just seems like hardcore woodie fans like to be tossed around, shaken, even beat up a little. Which makes me wonder a little bit about what else they enjoy in their free time.  Yet I digress.
I also agree w/ Coaster05 that I'm never really that intimidated on the second ride of any coaster. My adrenaline's pumping and I'm excited, but not too intimidated. Maybe the first few times on hypers that used to be really tall when they came out. My main question for Timberman is, what are these demands you speak of? What should coasters demand of their riders beyond the initial courage to board?
And while 8 year-olds enjoy rides like Nitro and Mellinium Force keep in mind on the other hand some 30 year-olds look at those high peaks and stay away. I still can't get my big bro on S:ROS or Apollo's Chariot. Too intimidating for him.
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Timberman
Posts: 845
Registered: 9/21/2004
Rank: Gold Critic
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8/9/2005 1:54:37 PM
You ask a fair question. The demands I speak of are the willingness to be jostled, thrown into your riding partner, to come into hard contact with the lapbar and then the seat, to endure a certain amount of vibration, to put up with not being able to remain comfortably seated in a fixed position, and, generally, to be willing to exit a coaster in a slightly worse shape (temporarily) then when you got on. More than that, some coasters even demand loyalty, patience, and the willingness to learn how to ride them. As hrrytrver has said, wooden coasters have a very organic quality. Their rides vary appreciably due to all sorts of conditions. At certain times the ride might be relatively lame, but if you keep going back, you'll eventually be rewarded with a ride in the sweetspot, when the full potential of the ride comes suddenly to the fore. Boulderdash was this way for me. It's like staying with your favorite ball team until it wins the championship. Finally, some coasters actually require that you learn how to ride them. You literally need to come to terms with the ride so you can fully enjoy it without it beating the crap out of you. During the process, however, you might have to take a bruising. The best example of this for me was the back seat of the Cyclone. If this all sounds like nonsense, then congratulations. You are the very person to whom modern theme parks cater.
As for what I've done in my free time, my reference points for recreation include skateboarding and roller skating on metal wheels, sled riding, riding and occasionally crashing BMX and road-racing bicycles, pick-up games of tackle football and smear-the-queer (basically tag with a football and tackling instead of tagging - oh, and PC was a foreign concepts to nine-years-olds in 1979), jumping off rocks and bridges into water, sparring, trying to emulate WWF wrestlers in living rooms, riding go-karts, jumping off garages and playground equipment, impromptu diving contests at the local pool, getting into occasional fights, climbing and jumping out of trees, and rolling down large, grassy hillsides. Do kids still do these things? I had my toes cut off and suffered a concussion and three broken bones by my late teens just from the type of stuff I've mentioned, and I was still generally considered the sickly weakling among my group of friends. This was what we used to call "growing up" and "having fun." Bloody noses, skinned knees, it was all just part of the territory.
God, I'm sounding old. I'll stop now.
Message updated 8/9/2005 2:22:01 PM by Timberman
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