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-1 Rating Posted by: pit77 on 1/6/2003 5:36:00 AM

One of the best wooden rides out there today! Excellent scenery and theme with the mountainside tracks. Live 2000 miles away but get to Conn. every summer, and the wait is never more then 10-20 minutes! Excellent ride.

Not a bad review but their isnt a theme. they built it in the mountainto both make somthing deforent and build a new coaster wothout expanding the parks preveasly used land.

Then what the hell is pit77 talking about, Mr. Detective?!?!?!

The theme is riding through a mountain or at least thats how the commercials made it look.

Theme: A subject or topic
A pree existing landscape cant be catigorized as a subject or topic.

I disagree .. you can theme a ride to its surroundings. THE BEAST (that lurks in the woods) ... THE RAVEN (a wicked flight through nature) ... No, the natural landscape is not MAN MADE THEMING, but it is the TOPIC that the ride is themed to. BOULDER DASH as a name and a theme to a ride would make no sense if the coaster was lakeside. HOOSIER HURRICANE would be a horrible name/theme for a coaster that was built to a mountain. BUT, because both are themed/named for the natural surroundings ... THEY ARE THEMED! One doesnt have to put themeing around a ride to make sense, they can theme the ride to whats already around it to give it the EXACT same idea/feel.

Thats not a theme!

For once Xtreme fan we agree. there is not a theme. they could have named it anything and it would still be a ten ride.

How is THE BEAST not a themed ride? It is THE BEAST that luks in teh woods and is ready to strike. YOu can see NOTHING of the coaster except the lift hill, so it was desigend so that everything was THE BEAST striking at its prey. How is THE RACER not a themed ride? They painted it white and made it a proud out-and-back coaster so that it would suit its "classic amusement park" surroundings (compared to the rest of the park). How is THE RAVEN not a themed ride? Its the wicked bird that flies through the woods in the dark .. that allures guests and thrills them. How is DRAGON MOUNTAIN not a themed ride? Its a coaster built into and on a mountain, with the coaster being a dragon giving it reason to pass through the dark tunnels and fly through the air (loops). Just because a park didnt build theming around a ride, doesnt mean thatthey didnt intentionally build a themed ride to set among an existing area. You dont always have to build something NEW around a ride to have it be themeing.

Alrighty then!

So if i want to build a theme park all I need to do is mention its surounding is the ride names and I got a themed ride and park?

I have no clue what you just said ... but I have an idea what you meant. If you build a park and give the rides the same feel as their NATURAL surroundings, then yes Id say you have a themed park. Things dont need to be fiberglass and loudly painted to be themed. It would actually take more imagination to do it naturally, but it can be done and done very well. Many people consider the rides at Holiday World to be themed ... but I think it takes more than an orange coat of paint on a scrambler or the name "frightful falls" on a log flume to give it "themeing". That being said, a ride whos style/course and name and housing/station suits its surroundings is themed. Its not themed to a cartoon character or a movie or a childrens book or a comic book ... its themed to the area that its in. Consider it the difference between a childs room which is decorated loudly and proudly, but with a very obvious theme AND a roomdone by a good interior decorator where there is a theme as everything inthe room connects perfectly with all of its surroundings, but it doesnt SCREAM at you like the kids room did.

I can see youare very feel very strongly that a theme is easy t cme by. just mention what is their and your set. I personaly fealthat themeis somthing that is worked on. the yule log flume is in the woods and acording to your standard that would be perfact themeing but they went to the pont of themeing to diy the water green and place elfs all over to see.

I feel theming is somthing aded to the ride to prosent the subject. but your opinion is your opinion wether right or ywrong its your good luck if you ever opena park.

The YULE log flume in the woods would not be themeing. HOWEVER, (and I dont know where this ride is but) if they called it "Loggers Run" or "Loggers Mill" and just had the attendant dress as lumberjacks, that would be theming.

So adding costumes, somthing to prosent the subject, this more inforves my felosiphy on the subject then your. They were standard park uniforms at this ride not costumes. you just said that the trees arnt enuf to conseder the ride themed.

BigJohnWC said:
if they called it "Loggers Run" or "Loggers Mill" and just had the attendant dress as lumberjacks, that would be theming.

The trees would be enough .. WITH that type of a name ...

But calling it the YULE log flume gives it a different feel. Its no longer replicating a log going through the forest at a mill and now is representive of christmas (thats a guess from your description of elves and the green water) ...

Its called Boulder Dash. It runs around past all the rocks on the mountain side (and the trees as well). Works as a theme for me!

Usually theme is considered like props or the set-up the park has for it. But trees, lakes, any plant life is considered theming.

Beleace what yo will but in my mind its a cheep excuse to say the trees are theming. youre not going to change my mind.

The natural environment cheap!? I think its more beautiful than any fiberglass creation from a prop department.

Really! I agree with ILoveWood. Not many rides are cloaked by trees, becasue of the expense. So you should be more thankful for themes like this one, than the like Batman or Superman themes.

What expence the trees were allready their. All they had to do is clear out the ones in the way. they didnt hav eto do anything.

Yes, nut it is harder and more expensive to design a coaster that only has like a 2 foot passing space from hitting the trees!

PLUS .. the trees create an added feeling and effect for the coaster as coasters that pass clsoe to trees, rock, and ground terrain give the illusion of moving faster and wilder than they actually are.

Yes that is true, but it dosnt cost more. they can design a coster to be put in the area, you pay for a design wether its in trees or siting in a parking loot. you pay the same amount for the design. bu the fealingof speenof of being close to the ground or objects it true.

Acutally .. it DOES NOT cost the same. Its more expensive to build a ride/coaster around permenant fixtures. Ask Kings Island, who redesigned THE BEAST so many times it isnt even funny. Ask Holiday World, who had to take extra time and car and dollars with THE RAVEN. On a similar note, ask Indiana Beach who spent considerable time and more during the entirety of last season and this off-season continuing to work the kinks out of LoCoSuMo since it had to be built around and within the existing Superstition Mountain.

Notice how rides like hidden in the trees or by some other one of natures forms, are less popular!

Thow Bolder dash coast a mear 6,000,000 a fraction of what it normaly costs to build a 117ft coaster.

Wood coasters are cheaper to build then steel. Consider this, the Knoebels Twister cost just $3 million in 1999 to build, a bargain because it was built in house and did not have to work its way around terrain like Boulder Dash does. I actually agree with XtremeFan8 (for once), a natural setting can be a theme if it is planned and exicuted well, and it tends to be better then the plasic or fiber glass themes at other parks, and far better then naming every other coaster after a comic book super hero.

Ok but this was using plans adapted by John Fetterman from John Allens original plans of the Mr. Twister. They didnt have to pay for the design witch cuts out a large portion of the costs.

Very true. Possibly a better example would be Legend. It is a CCI coaster built at the same time at a cost on only $3 million as well. While it is about 700 feet shorter, it does not follow as much terrain as Boulder Dash does, and I think that is the reason for the much lower cost.

Take a look at this photo:

http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery602.htm?Picture=5

You can see thay actually had to build the structure over even the smallest rocks, removing as little as possible, making it look and feel like it has always been there, thus following a theme.

making it look and feel like it has always been there, grantied it fits wellinto the area. maybe it did coast more. the prices on RCDB change quite often latly. thow thier is still no theme. last time I went theire I asked the maneger if anythingis the park was themed and he said nothing beyond the enterance.

Extreme, you bring up an excellent point. Often its easier for a park just to demolish the natural beauty of an area (when adding new rides) than to work with the existing environment. Thus we have cool new rides surrounded by concrete and pavement. My first memories of a park was a small amusement park in Holyoke, Massachusetts called Mountain Park. It was a typical yet very charming "trolley park" as they were called. Its last season was the summer of 1987, but I still remember it well. The one thing it had that so many parks lack today are full grown adult TREES! They didnt just cutem down at Mountain Park, they knew they had a pretty little place and tried to work with what they had. Thus the ferris wheel was sandwiched in between some trees that were almost as tall as the ferris wheel itself. Their flying scooters ride, called the "Flying Jets" were situated next to big tall trees that had been there for years, so when you flew past them you were sure your car would swing out too far and hit one. The out and back woodie called the "Mountain Flyer" was up against the tree line of the forest, so close that when the NAD train crested the camelbacks, air rush made the tree limbs and leaves rustle. This is why I enjoy Lake Compounce so much. It reminds me a lot of the old Mountain Park, lots of trees and not every square foot is taken up by something that produces revenue. They actually have small green lawns here and there where you can sit and relax, it really is a "park" in the true sense of the word. Now that I think of it, they go the old Mountain Park one better, Boulder Dash doesnt hug the tree line like Mountain Flyer, its actually a part of the forest, which is totally cool.

Verry good point. I never mad it to Mountain park. but for that same reason is why I like canobie. lots of trees. and grass to sit on and relax. fountains everywere, adn flowers t see. counpounce dose this well to. maybe the ride is or isnt a theme ed ride. but lets state the facts no mater what trees are important and a vital part of not only the park but the injoyment of one. Bensons was like this too. youll also find lits of trees at Santas village and story land. i wish Riverside now SFNE would have figured this out. they would be a much better park.

Mrceagle, I totally agree with you. Having Riverside as SFNE is a VERY mixed bag indeed. Dont get me wrong, I really enjoy SFNE, the staff they import from South America and Eastern Europe are VERY friendly (wish I could say the same for the locals) and these past two years the park has been kept very clean (not so in 2000, the first year as SFNE). And I love the fact that a world class coaster like S:ROS is less than a thirty minute drive from my home. The rides in general are fun, and Im really, REALLY, appreciative that the park is here and didnt go the way of Mountain Park. Yet food prices have gone through the roof, lines tend to be long, too many rides involve going upside down (where is "Sea Dragon", everyone loved that ride), Thunderbolt could use some work, and the ultimate indignity is of course the rape, torture, and overall mutilation of Cyclone. Just ten years ago this ride was on every top ten coaster list in the country, and considered one of the most frightening coasters ever built. Has any ride ever been treated with less respect by its owner? Actually I probably dont want to know the answer to that question. Okay, they altered the first drop, I hated it but I dealt with it, Cyclone still pounded its riders through its layout with murderous intent, which I loved. But those new trim breaks added this past summer did the old girl in for me. The final run back to the station had all the power of "Poison Ivys Twisted Train", maybe less. So we have a superb hypercoaster, a great new floorless, and a ruined masterpiece. Yes, a very mixed bag indeed. On a final note, Cyclones designer, Bill Cobb, was hired to inspect the Mountain Flyer at Mountain Park after they shut down operation in the late 80s. He pronounced the coaster in excellent condition, amazing since in its 60 years, it had never been retracked, just simple common maintnance. I wonder what hed think of Cyclones condition at the tender age of 20?

Do you know if anything is left of Mountain park? SFNE gets worse and worse every time I go. Ive seen the parking price go from 6 to 10 dollers and I cant aford to eat anything other then the Ounos pizza. I agree superman and batman are great coasters. thunderbolt needs some work Cyclone has indead been raped, and the remainder of their coaster are cheap and out of place exept for the great chase. They need to clean up theri act. the foregn implayes are quite nice and that helps. but this last year Canobie lake a small family ark wich actualy has more rides. took them in atendance. Canobie is adding a new flat ride and SFNE is addini nothing. They will need to play their cars well if they dont want to loose out to a local family owned park. The flaged park has even fewer trees ina park were trees were scarse to start. they can do alot with this park and I hope that whalom will reopen soon.

ILoveWood, you got to come down to PA and visit Knoebels some time.

SFs gives no respect to their wood coasters at all. The Cyclone is just one of many examples.

Look at the Texas Cyclone, over the years constantly tamed down until it has gotten to the point that it is just a pale glimmer of its NY cousain.

Rolling Thunder has gotten such poor maintance over the years that it can no longer race and it is a wonder it can even complete its couse anymore.

The Wild One has been tamed down so much that I personally think a scenic railway can give more thrills, what with all the reprofiling and triming they have done to that ride.

Reprofiling has been the name of the game for Colossus at SFMM. There is even a clear picture on the RCDB that shows where they built a break run right over the double dip!

The small parks, Lake Compounce, Knoebels, Holiday World, and others, have learn to let their wood run free, and those rides are loved both by the enthuseists and the general public. SF needs to take a lesson from this and learn that these wonderful classics that they have need to run as they were ment to be run, fast, wild and seemingly out of control, because that is what a good wooden coaster is all about.

I agree all the parks in PA seam to make the sorounding nature park of the park.

Mrceagle, the last time I snuck in to (what used to be) Mountain Park was Columbus Day of 2000. At that time the house for the "Whip" ride was still standing, but the floor had caved in. The Carousel house was there (I understand its burned since then) as well as the Dodgems house, though its roof was going. By the way, the house around the Carousel where it now stands in Holyoke Heritage park has more glass, but is otherwise a perfect reproduction of the original. Many footprints of rides were still there, for example the "Satellites", "Tilt-a-Whirl", and ferris wheel. The entrance to the train ride was there, as well as the entrance to the train tunnel, but the tunnel itself was gone, my friend and I were being really daring trying to find that tunnel, the overgrowth there was amazing and who knows whats living in this new forest now. Some buildings that housed arcades, dark rides, etc. were there in verying degrees of decay. The "Mountain Flyer" is long gone. The NAD trains went to another park, but no one bought the "Flyer". Ive heard that it went up for sale after Bill Cobb pronounced its condition excellent but there were no takers, the owner then offered the coaster for FREE to anyone whom at their own expense would dismantle it and take it away. The "Flyer" was unlucky with the timing, the wood coaster boom of the 1970s was long over and the new found interest in wood coasters that would take place in the 1990s had yet to begin, everyone wanted steel. So the greatest little out and back ever built (of course Im totally kidding, but it was my first coaster, so in my mind it will always be the best) was torn down around 1991. However, there still is ONE little piece of it in this area. In 94 a friend of mine snuck into the defunct park. He found that the platform of the "Flyer" station was still there. What prompted him to do what he did next I dont know, but he walked through the overgrowth (watch out for snakes!) to the back of the platform, then went into the darkness UNDER the platform and in the dim light something caught his eye. It was the sign for the top of the lift hill saying, "Last Warning: Do Not Stand Up."! Other people have mirrors or paintings hanging on their living room walls, he has that sign.

Black7, Ive heard EXCELLENT reports about the PA parks, especially Knoebels. This upcoming summer some friends of mine want me to join them on an Amusement Park trip to either PA parks or Cedar Point in Ohio. I have a feeling they are going to want to do up Cedar Point because of the large amount of coasters. Well, well see.....

That is a really interesting story. I have always been fasinated by defunct parks and coasters, and the Mountain Flyer looks like it was an excellent ride, it is a pity no one wanted it

You just have to love those Century Flyer trains.

If you do decide to make it to PA, let me know, I would love to show you Knoebels excellent wood. Even if you decide on Cedar Point, you could still make a side trip to Knoebels, it is not really far off I-80, and since it is free you could just pop in, buy tickets for the the coasters, and some extra for the Skooters, the Grand Carousel, and the Haunted Mansion, and pop out. You could do it in just a couple of hours, since there are rarely lines longer then 10 minutes. I myself am looking forward to my CP trip, particurly since Dragster was announced

I had thought the coaster was still their. sad to hear it is gon. I know what is is liket o go through it thow withmy parktheir is still a shance. My park is whalom park in fitchburg/Lunnenburg MA. I have documented the destruction of the picnic area and the empty plots were rides one stood. the coaster is still their and they had an arsin fire on th ball room sept 9. I visited sept 12, ironic I was out os classes for a holiday called day of carring. the terorist attacts were just the day before. I colected some burned chars off the bround from the burned down ballroom. thow whalom my not be perminatly closed Alison Bowen whos father baught the park in the 30s is rasig money through www.savewhalompark.com in an atempt to reopen the park and return both the ark and the rides to their former glorry.

SIMPSONS RULE

Xtremefan, you are such a moron. Hear we are talking about memeres of lost parks and the need for trees in todays parks and you come out with a commet of "Simpsons Rule" which I am not going to argue that point. the thing is it has nothing to do with the discusion at hand. if you wnt to make a coment about the discusion feel free. but tleave this junk for rants and raves. start a thread. just stick to the discusion at hand.

Black7, thanks for the Knoebels invitation. As the summer approaches, Ill have a better idea of what my friends want to do. Mrceagle, I had no idea that Whalom had fallen into that much disrepair and that some of the rides are all ready gone. Whalom had purchased a few of Mountain Parks rides when it closed, and its been cool to know they were giving fun to people still.

Ive been working hard with Alison geting the word out about the park. and if the gentilman that has the purchase and sales agreemant dosnt move soon he will forfit the contract. this would be the preferd was because with ne other competitive bid on the park. she could buy in at a dert cheep offer. some of the removed rides would be returned. but over all the more money thatis rased and if saved buy more ride and fix up the park. I bought 2 whales myself and my brother another 2 I whow one man that bought 5. Also the Carousel is garented to return. their is a gentalman that bought it and promisas to return it to the park if reopened.

SIMPSONS RULE!

Xtreme I can never underestimate to moronic nature of your ways.

Yeah ok whatever.

I found a site that had a reveiw of mountain park and photos.
http://www.defunctparks.com/parks/MA/mountain/mountainpark.htm

Yes, and also check out:
http://ejacques.tripod.com/mtpark2/main.html.

Also, some info on Whalom Park can be found here: http://history.amusement-parks.com/

Thanks for the sites. This was always one of the parks I wish I would have been ablt to visit.

SIMPSONS FOR LIFE!!!!

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