coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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 7/13/2007 12:32:08 PM
Since i have now visited around half or more of each chain I feel that I can safely say that when given the choice I totally prefer Six Flags to Cedar Fair. I will start buy ranking the parks and then listing the benefits of each. We can then get opinions from others.
1. Cedar Point
1a. SFOG(only one visit)
3. SFGAM
4. SFGADV
5. SFNE
6. SFSTL
7. SF Great Escape
8. SFA
9. Canada's Wonderland
10. Dorney
11. Geauga Lake
12. Kings Island
13. Kings Dominion
14. MIA
15. SFKK
16. Valley Fair
This list also give GL the benefit of how I felt when it was a SF park.
Advantages for CF
Capacity although it is far better at CP then any other park, but it is more consistent then SF.
Security though IMO some parks go to far.
Advantages for SF
Rides- not even close they have more, less brakes, have by far the superior wood collection and are at least even in steel.
Food- though both are far from good, I have had much better success at SF
Theming- Does CF even now how to do any area outside of a western town. SFGADV's two new areas are amazing, some great DC stuff, wonderful areas at Great Escape.
Fun- I actually enjoy myself at SF where most my CF visits fell as if I am in a mental ward where we don't want to upset anyone.
Value- The season pass is half the cost, a parking pass works anywhere, the other areas are a wash. Though bonus for a much better rate for school field trips.
Ability to change- They are making new moves, CF uses the same tired approach which has now given the world cloned parks, which is much worse then cloned rides.
Bottom Line SF offers a more random experience but for me the payoff is worth the risk as opposed to a very sterile, cookie cutter experience at each park in your chain.
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Aug 24 2006 A new level of fanboydom by MRC.
"True but my niece isn't going to get any more out of Disney they she dose out of Story land. Not to mention Story land has more rides and is on the same lever customer service wise."
Coaster Count-286
Wood-78
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sfo1
Posts: 5359
Registered: 7/22/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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 7/13/2007 1:21:06 PM
It's amazing how just 3 years can bring Cedar Fair from what seemed to be unanimous respect among the amusement community, to what now seems lack of satisfaction regarding almost all of their parks -except- Cedar Point.
IMO, they just got too big for their britches (I think that's the right expression?) in too small of a time frame. A noteable observation of my home park, GL, is complete lack of any sense of character and neglect. I preferred Six Flags, also. SF, although bringing with them bad capacity and bad attitudes (although that has seen a turnaround it seems in the new era), also brought a lively feeling of themed character. The park was bustling, and it was hard to complete everything (marine, waterpark, rides) in one day. Hell, 2 days was barely ample. Now the park can be fit into one's schedule in less than a day.
I realize Cedar Fair is going for a family - picnic, 1970s approach, and I respect the idea, but it is anything from a nice family park at present. While the admission is nice and cheap, food prices are worse than they were at SF, I do believe parking is the same, there are no "likeable characters" for the kids to meet like with SF, employees are no more pleasant than in '03, the coasters have not improved capacity, we now have a completely barren 50s area, RWB which is seeing no attention from what I hear after the accident, a lack of a Halloween event, etc.
I have faith in Bill Sphen, but not in CF itself.
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Scott
Posts: 2766
Registered: 11/7/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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7/13/2007 3:36:32 PM
I've always preferred cedar fair... The parks may be somewhat bland, but I always leave feeling satisfied. I have had great experiences, and awful experiences at six flags. Cedar fair always seems to offer a more consistent park experience.
I've never had a problem with the lack of theming at cedar fair... There are several parks (camp snoopy, knotts, etc) with great theming.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
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7/13/2007 8:57:27 PM
Haven't been to Knotts but camp snoopy is very weak. CF is consistent, consistently stale to me.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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7/13/2007 10:32:01 PM
Quote:
sfo1 said:
A noteable observation of my home park, GL, is complete lack of any sense of character and neglect. |
That is the exact same thing that happened to Dorney within the first couple of years of Cedar Fair ownership. It is the same thing today.
I can not really compare the two because I have only been to one Cedar Fair park and just four Six Flags parks, but from what I have gathered over the years, the Cedar Fair park has delivered the much more consistent experiences. A few years ago I went to Dorney 25 times and only once did I have a poor experience and on another occasion I had a barely below average experience. Both occasions I was only in the park for about 2 hours anyway - it was not like I was there the whole day.
I can definitely give Six Flags credit for some of their moves over the past few years. It took a lot of "balls" for the old management to really try to makeover a dying company, and now Shapiro and the gang are doing the same thing with partnerships, sales of parks, increases in staff, attention to maintenance, great advertising, additions of theming and character to the parks...... and the list goes on.
Right now I kind of have to give the edge to Six Flags just because of the news of Cedar Fair being on the selling block, though it can be debated how serious that is and will become. Six Flags does seem to be moving in the right direction.
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Canobie Coaster
Posts: 2694
Registered: 7/26/2005
Rank: Platinum Critic
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7/14/2007 7:35:42 AM
I really can't say because I have only been to one of the parks in each chain (Dorney Park for Cedar Fair and The Great Escape for Six Flags). However, from those two parks I liked Dorney Park way better because its rides were significantly better. But, I can't base my entire opinion off just two parks. I haven't yet been to Six Flags New England since it changed from Riverside and I haven't been to Paramount since it became part of Cedar Fair's ownership.
Personally, after hearing lots of praise and negativity for Six Flags I thought Cedar Fair was much more popular.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
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7/14/2007 9:56:48 AM
Dorney had the better coasters, but Great Escape felt so much more unique.
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BobFunland
Posts: 7962
Registered: 8/9/2001
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7/15/2007 2:11:17 PM
yes... yes they do. Glad there are more people who agree 
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
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7/15/2007 6:00:44 PM
The more I think about it CF is just not even close IMO. If you remove CP they pretty much blow.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
Registered: 11/7/2002
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7/15/2007 7:36:44 PM
I'd still like to see more consistent service at SF parks before I make the same proclamation.
The premier CF park is clearly CP, but I also enjoy: KBF, Carowinds and Kings Dominion and Dorney to a lesser degree. But I'm not a big fan of VF, Geauga Lake or Kings Island.
As far as SF: I like SFGAm, SFGAdv and SFMM (for coasters only, as I hated the clientele), SFoG, SFFT and SFStL.
SFNE and SFAm can both run the gamut on service and operations. I hated SFKK. Then SF went and sold their weakest parks.
So SF looks better in terms of great coasters, but I'm still not convinced about their service. Yes, it is better overall than the past.
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Scott
Posts: 2766
Registered: 11/7/2004
Rank: Platinum Critic
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7/16/2007 6:35:49 PM
Hmmm... Maybe I'm biased since my home SF park was Elitch Gardens. 
Customer service was awful, the operations were terrible, we had a clientele nearly as bad as SFMM (remember Colorado is in the west, and elitch gardens is only a few minutes from Denver's own lovely barrios!!)
Any park... even VF/MIA seemed like an improvement.
I never saw any of Shapiro's "improvements" etc.
This year has been much better.
Anyhow.
In CF I like -
Worlds of fun - Great landscaping lots of character - Not Like Cedar Fair at all - A beautiful Park.
Knotts - Great rides, decent food, very well kept.
CP - Duh
Most former paramount parks.
In SF I Like -
SFOG - Only visited once but I had a great time
SFGAM - Probably the best SF park.
SFFT - Good experience overall.
Both companies have many awful parks.
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PhantomNik
Posts: 515
Registered: 6/6/2002
Rank: Gold Critic
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7/20/2007 2:16:08 PM
Quote:
larrygator said:
I'd still like to see more consistent service at SF parks before I make the same proclamation. |
I tend to agree with larry on this one. Admittedly, I have not hit anywhere near the number of parks as some of you guys have, but based on my experiences at parks of each parent company, Six Flags has a lot of work to do.
I will admit that Six Flags does have a few pros - mainly a slightly better coaster lineup and theming that does indeed blow Cedar Fair parks away. Although some may contend that Cedar Fair's parks weren't meant to be "theme" parks in the first place. From what I've seen the Six Flags parks are better landscaped as well.
I've only been to 2 Six Flags parks, Darien Lake in 1999 & 2003 and Great Adventure last year. In both instances, the staffs were nothing short of atrocious. The ride crews are not efficient at all, and they move at an absolute snail's pace. The other park employees weren't any better, as many were snippy, rude, and otherwise unhelpful. I know this is only 2 parks from the chain (and one of those isn't even "flagged" anymore), but those experiences don't have me giving anyone a glowing review of Six Flags. Although I always qualify my opinion with the fact that there are several other Six Flags parks I'd like to check out, in hopes that my view on them can improve. Were it not for their killer coaster lineup, I may have very little desire to ever go back to GAdv based on our 2-day trip. There's something wrong when you spend 2 10+ hour days in a park and end up riding 15 things total.
I haven't been to too many CF parks either, just CP and Dorney. But each of those I've been returning to year after year and have had nothing but pleasant experiences there. Again, as my travels increase and I visit more of each, then maybe my views will swing the other way. But for now, for me, the edge clearly goes to Cedar Fair.
Another interesting case is Geauga Lake. I visited the park once as Six Flags WoA, and once after CF took over. The difference was remarkable. Under SF, the park was filthy, the employees were lethargic, and it seemed like their only plan was to just "plop" a ton of coasters in without much other thought. Well, as we know, that flopped. My visit was much better when I went to Geauga Lake. The park was spotless by comparison, the employees were much better, and with the recent "downsizing", the park seems to be returning more to its roots, and I think that's commendable. Just figured I'd throw in my two cents on the topic, which I think is an interesting one to discuss!
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I'd rather be coaster riding!
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
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7/20/2007 7:26:21 PM
if it flopped under SF then how about now where they are drawing less.
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Canobie Coaster
Posts: 2694
Registered: 7/26/2005
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7/21/2007 6:59:17 AM
I just visited Six Flags New England yesterday and it was better than Dorney Park.
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ginzo
Posts: 564
Registered: 7/16/2006
Rank: Gold Critic
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7/22/2007 9:27:33 PM
I'm going to have to go with Six Flags, mainly because when you compare the coaster collections of the two chains it's not even funny how badly Six Flags whomps Cedar Fair. A quick look at the Internet Coaster Poll illustrates this.
Top 20 Steel:
Six Flags = 4 (5 if you count Darien Lake), including the #1.
Cedar Fair = 1 (though I'll bet they'll have 2 this year)
And if you take away Cedar Point, Cedar Fair's coaster collection becomes laughable.
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Canobie Coaster
Posts: 2694
Registered: 7/26/2005
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7/22/2007 9:44:57 PM
^ You have a good point about the highly ranked coasters.
I used the 2006 Amusement Today Golden Ticket awards.
Top 50 steel coasters
Six Flags has 15 (17) if you include Darien Lake's Ride of Steel and La Ronde's Goliath (3 top 10 steel coasters). This isn't even bringing up the European parks they used to own.
Cedar Fair has 11 and 3 top 10 steel coasters. They added Maverick this year, but they still fall short to Six Flags' outstanding steel coaster arsenal.
Top 50 Wooden Coasters
Six Flags has 8 top 50 wooden coasters. Though none were ranked in the top 10, El Toro definitely belongs there.
Cedar Fair has 6 top 50 wooden coasters and they most likely will be a 7th this year (Renegade at Valleyfair). The Beast is their only top 10 wooden coaster.
This shows Six Flags has a more superior roller coaster collection over Cedar Fair. Just imagine what the numbers would be like if you removed Cedar Point. That shows how much more superior Six Flags has become.
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Scott
Posts: 2766
Registered: 11/7/2004
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7/23/2007 1:50:32 AM
Remember that six flags also owns more parks than CF. 
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Canobie Coaster
Posts: 2694
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7/23/2007 6:59:54 AM
True, but I just hear more positives about Six Flags' coasters like Nitro, El Toro, Kingda Ka, Goliath, Superman Ride of Steel, ect. Cedar Fair has Cedar Point's top coasters, but that's it.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
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7/23/2007 1:46:50 PM
I don't think you can use the Golden Tickets here. I mean come on. Like you said, El Toro wasn't even ranked in the top 10.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
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7/23/2007 11:15:01 PM
SF did own more parks then CF. I thought with Paramount CF has the edge.
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Scott
Posts: 2766
Registered: 11/7/2004
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7/23/2007 11:18:36 PM
You might be right. Six flags lost 4 parks in the winter CF gained (4??)
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
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7/24/2007 12:53:09 AM
Cedar Fair gained 5.
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Horizons12
Posts: 4860
Registered: 8/16/2002
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7/24/2007 10:23:58 PM
I've only been to one park in each chain: SFGAdv and Dorney. I find that GAdv has much btter coasters than Dorney, but that's really it. GAdv has almost no flatrides now and the park just seems dirty. There's also a lot of dead space now.
Dorney is a more complete park if you ask me. They have good coasters and good flats. The park is also pretty nice and seems very clean. The food is pretty good and not too expensive either. Plus the added waterpark gives it points. What I don't like is that Dorney seems too generic. There is no theme, it's almost like an RCT park when you have no money and you just cluster rides together.
I can't really make a decision on which chain is better but between the parks I'd pick Dorney.
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Canobie Coaster
Posts: 2694
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7/25/2007 9:50:58 PM
^ The only section of Dorney that I didn't find generic was the kiddie section, Camp Snoopy because it actually had some theming.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
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7/26/2007 12:32:24 PM
The only section of the park that I don't find generic is over by Laser and by the REAL kiddie section of the park. Over in that area and crossing the bridge over the stream is the best section of the park.
Even I wouldn't take Dorney over the new Great Adventure.
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PhantomNik
Posts: 515
Registered: 6/6/2002
Rank: Gold Critic
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7/27/2007 12:45:37 PM
Quote:
coaster05 said:
if it flopped under SF then how about now where they are drawing less. |
Well, ok, maybe flopped wasn't quite the right word to use. You're certainly right that they did draw many more people when they were SFWoA. I don't remember exact numbers, but I believe they were over 2 million in attendance, at least early on. All I'm saying is that despite bringing in the people, the product (to me anyway) was just not that great. Coasters are great and a main draw to get me to a park, but if the place is filthy and the crews suck, then I will probably not have as good of a time. And I can't imagine that the park prospered that much under SF, being that they pulled out and sold it after just 5 years.
They get less people now, no doubt about it. But from my own experience and those of friends of mine who have been to both, the statements are all the same - the park is much better off under CF. And I've talked to other people who have no desire at all to go back to GL because of poor experiences they had visiting when it was under SF. If SF has left a sour taste in the clientele's mouth, then it will take GL a while to recover from it, if they recover at all. I guess all I'm saying is that attendance doesn't mean much if all those guests are leaving unhappy. I'd be very interested to see what SFWoA's attendance numbers were by year, from 2000-2004. I wouldn't be surprised if they declined from 2000 on.
Look, I'm not by any means trying to come off as a Six Flags hater. In fact, if I were to pick 5 parks from either chain that are on my list as "must-go" places, they'd be:
1. SFGAm - I've heard nothing but positives
2. SFNE - Su...per...man!
3. Knott's - Looks like a hidden jewel of the CF chain
4. SFoG - Again, I've heard all positives
5. Canada's Wonderland - Neat flats, and a potentially awesome new coaster on the way
3 of them are Six Flags properties, and if I were to continue, the next ones high on the list are SFMM and SFFT. I only hope that some of these other SF properties make up for the lackluster showing I got from the other 2 (3 if you count SFWoA). If so, then the pendulum may indeed swing the other way.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
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7/27/2007 11:44:25 PM
I went to SFWOA every year they owned it. I have never been since CF purchased it. Why? Because I know it will be a water down, sterile experience. Sure the park is cleaner it is drawing 1/5 of the people. CF also got rid of a great fearfest. Course they only know how to correctly do those at Knott's and CP. CF puts so much on their capacity, but it is NOTHING compared to BGE and they do theming. I would prefer all parks to be owned by Busch, but until then I stick to mt statement.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
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8/1/2007 12:12:48 PM
Quote:
coaster05 said:
CF also got rid of a great fearfest. Course they only know how to correctly do those at Knott's and CP. |
Please. You know that Dorney knows how to do a Halloween event
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"I could never design another ride like Hercules." - Curtis Summers
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
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8/1/2007 1:27:24 PM
Jay that is the only Fearfest I have ever been to where I feel the Fest actually made the park worse. It was awful beyond words, the Snoopy house was the scariest of the 3.
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taylorb251
Posts: 1181
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8/2/2007 7:08:53 AM
I agree, Dorney's fearfest was just bad. We went to a haunted house in Cleveland and that was 100 times better.
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