Axman
Posts: 1055
Registered: 10/4/2003
Rank: Platinum Critic
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 2/12/2007 11:13:07 PM
Six Flags parks first began in the late fiftys, when the first Disneyland-ispired park was planned for Texas. SFOT opened in 1961, SFOG in 1969, and SFOM-A in 1971. When these parks opened, they really displayed a Disney-like quality. However, this quality was painfully short-lived. Look at these parks today. Take Six Flags Over Georgia, for example. They've got Gotham City as one of the park's "6 Flags" (more like 10), Bugs Bunny Land takes up all of Spain, Ninja and Superman are in the Cotton States, Georgia Cyclone and Achraphobia are in Britian, Monster Plantation is in France, and "Goliath" is in the U.S.A. All other Six Flags Parks are in the same situation. They all have more than 6 areas, and most of them don't even have a flag, or a single theme.
What the hell happened to the Disney quality, and the intricately themed areas? Six Flags were a wonderfull themed park chain, up untill around 1992. Time Warner was about to buy the chain, and the first Batman and last Ninja came onto the scene. Pretty soon, the areas went from building ride with theme, to building them just for a quick thrill, completely raping the area's theme in the process. Six Flags Parks are a sad, insignificant, shadow of the wonderful Themeparks they once were.
I dream of Visiting SFMM before Superman opened in Samari Summit, or before Goliath dominated the Collossus Country fair. Back when fictional superheros didn't destroy the surrounding themes, and the rides all operated with thier own special theme surrounding them with its area's landscape.
I fear the Six Flags will never be what it was, and will slowly perish in the process.
Message updated 2/12/2007 11:14:55 PM by Axman
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Got_it
Posts: 818
Registered: 11/1/2006
Rank: Gold Critic
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2/13/2007 12:43:32 AM
Or worse they take a nice little park (Riverside-SFNE) and rape the rides of their fun (Cyclone) and fill the place full of copies of other rides (Mind Eraser, Flashback) it is not hard to custom design a SLC. All these copies takes away from the unique factor of the park as well. I love S:ROS but that go-kart track was very very fun 
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BobFunland
Posts: 7962
Registered: 8/9/2001
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2/13/2007 8:34:28 AM
Quote:
Axman said:
Take Six Flags Over Georgia, for example. They've got Gotham City as one of the park's "6 Flags" (more like 10) |
Actually all the "flags" remain represented in their respective sections - Georgia, Confederate, British, USA, French and Spanish
Quote:
They all have more than 6 areas, and most of them don't even have a flag, or a single theme. |
You gotta give Six Flags credit for the parks they actually built, but its not easy to just go with the same theme acrosss all the parks they purchased, especially if they haven't been controlled by six governing bodies 
Quote:
I fear the Six Flags will never be what it was, and will slowly perish in the process. |
Possibly not, but that doesn't mean the chain will die.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
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2/13/2007 10:12:41 AM
And who really cares if the chain dies anyway? As long as the parks are still open afterwards it is ok. I think some of the parks, if not all, would thrive under non-Six Flags ownership anyway.
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Axman
Posts: 1055
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2/13/2007 4:37:35 PM
I totally agree. I actually think Six Flags should totally ditch the "Six Flags" name. The parks need a name that better represents what they have to offer. Perhaps "Clashing Themes and Broken Ride World" would be a good name fo all of the parks.
Message updated 2/13/2007 4:38:01 PM by Axman
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
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2/13/2007 4:45:37 PM
Don't go then. I have no problem with bashing some aspects of SF, but for some it is just constant. IMO SFGAM, SFOG are both fabtastic parks. I would choose either over a dya at Cedar Point. For that matter other then Cedar Point every other CF park I have been to ranks with or below any SF visit. My really bad day at SFGADV may be the exception, but that was better then VF.
Wrapping up at least SF has some themes to clash as opposed to concrete and trash cans.
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Axman
Posts: 1055
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2/13/2007 4:54:31 PM
True. I rather have a themeless amusement park than a poorly themed themepark. SFOG is the ony Six Flags park that actually ranks higher than a CF park of the CF parks I've been too.
SFOG is better than Valleyfair, but Dorney, Cedar Point, and Knott's, in my opinion were better than SFMM, SFMW, SFKK, and SFOG. These are all of the CF and SF parks i've been to. Ex-Paramount Parks don't count because I haven't been to one since the purchase.
Everyone has their own opinions. Six Flags parks have very good coasters, but very bad everything else.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
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2/13/2007 5:29:25 PM
I liked Dorney, but no way would I go there over SFOG. I would rank it with SFKK.
I think both chains have crappy food.
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
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Rank: TPC News Minister
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2/13/2007 5:48:59 PM
I can agree slightly with your argument but feel your a bit Short of the truth. Yes They have more then 6 themed right now. You argue about SFOG The park hasn't overly changed Since it's opening many of the large scale additions have been park expansions. It still holes solid themed areas. The parks were reminiscent of Disney but never were Disney.
One of your argues rides at SFOG is Monster Plantation. Which is in the French area. the ride has been there for some time. Longer then the Time Warner down fall your talking about. I don't know if you have actually ridden it but it's a Disney inspired Family dark ride.
SFI has always from the Beginning Worked hard to present new technology installing the first Flume, Rapids rides, First inverted coaster, etc.
I don't completely get your argument. There no good because they added Batman themes. The BTR coaster are some of the best themed rides in the chain. I especially enjoyed the one at SFOG. Acrophobia isn't any more out of place then the original Plain ride they had. which had no theme.
But your argument seems very incomplete. I am having allot of trouble agreeing or not agreeing with you since it's more of an under-informed rambling then a real complaint or argument.
Got_it - Are you referring to the Race track that riverside had or are you talking about the never built go carts that would have been under the coaster built by the last owner.
edit:
Bob has some amazing points and i can't agree more. The themes are well represented and even the added batman area isn't that bad.
Quote:
SFOG is better than Valleyfair, but Dorney, Cedar Point, and Knott's, in my opinion were better than SFMM, SFMW, SFKK, and SFOG. These are all of the CF and SF parks I've been to. Ex-Paramount Parks don't count because I haven't been to one since the purchase. |
This seems to contradict your entire argument. Those parks you mentioned like CP and Dorney are not even trying to be theme parks. Knotts has a couple good areas but same thing. So what is your arguments because your complain about Ride additions spoiling the parks looks should put CP on the bottom of your list.
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Message updated 2/13/2007 5:54:46 PM by mrceagle
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taylorb251
Posts: 1181
Registered: 3/8/2004
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2/13/2007 5:49:06 PM
I think SFGA is a great park. I would put in right there with CP.
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Hercules
Posts: 4037
Registered: 10/13/2004
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2/13/2007 7:11:48 PM
Quote:
coaster05 said:
I liked Dorney, but no way would I go there over SFOG. I would rank it with SFKK.
I think both chains have crappy food. |
Ouch 
Six Flags isn't to the point that I wouldn't go to them. I just think there are better run chains and parks out there by far.
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"I could never design another ride like Hercules." - Curtis Summers
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Animan1
Posts: 5394
Registered: 5/14/2003
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2/13/2007 8:24:59 PM
I have never really understood the flack that SF constantly seems to take (at least from some people). Sure, they may not have theming on par with Universal, or staff at the same level of Disney (not that I have been to one of their parks  ), but they have generally good coasters, fairly competetive prices (their season pass is an amazing value), and some parks, such as SFGAm, that are just plain great all-around parks. I have not been to any of the SF parks that are generally deemed really crappy, but then I haven't been to a couple of the SF parks that are generally ranked pretty highly (the "new" SFGAdv, SFOG).
In short, I don't believe that they are perfect in every way. But they still a good chain that has made some changes in recent years on a variety of fronts to try to improve themselves, and the personal experiences I have had with them have been mostly positive.
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Got_it
Posts: 818
Registered: 11/1/2006
Rank: Gold Critic
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2/13/2007 9:42:17 PM
mrceagle- I meant the track they did have.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
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2/13/2007 11:18:38 PM
Quote:
Hercules said:
Ouch
Six Flags isn't to the point that I wouldn't go to them. I just think there are better run chains and parks out there by far. |
I think had Dorney not put on the worst Halloween event... EVER I would never put them together. That halloweekends thing is just so bad.
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"True but my niece isn't going to get any more out of Disney they she dose out of Story land. Not to mention Story land has more rides and is on the same lever customer service wise."
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Axman
Posts: 1055
Registered: 10/4/2003
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2/13/2007 11:45:43 PM
Listen everyone! This isn't some argument making some wild point. I believe that the CF Parks that I've been too:
CP
Knott's
Dorney
Valleyfair,
all run circles around the SF Parks i've been too:
SFOG
SFMM
SFMW
SFKK.
SFOG is close to CF quality, but not quite. I think that all rides, at any park, are bad if they have no theme in a themed area of a park. SFOG, with Georgia Cycle in Britian, and Ninja in America, makes no sense. Having Goliath in America, and Achraphobia in Britian, are O.K., but still not themed. You can't ask for perfecly themed parks from too many people.
The success of Cedar Fair parks is that they don't usually tie themselves down to any theme at all. Dorney Park, for example, is just an amusement park, not a theme park. Since no themes are aplied, no clashing really goes on. They can afford to have very immediate themes for all of their rides and attractions. Cedar Point and Knott's Berry Farm both have Western areas, but are both pulled off stunningly. Even the most modern rides fit in the theme. Knott's has Ghostrider and Silver Bullet, and CP has CC Mine Ride, Maveric, and Mean Streak.
To me, SF parks seemed like amazing theme parks back in the day, but the themes have long since been ignored. Don't get me wrong, B:TR kiss ass, and so do most other theme-clashing rides, but the mixed scenery can really take away from a park-going experience.
Now, in a perfect world, all themeparks would be like Universal Studios Island of Adventure. The theme in that park is imaculate.
Message updated 2/13/2007 11:47:46 PM by Axman
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RCGenius
Posts: 1180
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2/14/2007 5:57:01 AM
Don't forget that Six Flags' demographic criteria now's just going along with the coasters arms race. If they would've changed their mindset & tried to become a somewhat decent family chain, it would've worked out a lot better for them. Unfortunately, they're in so much debt because of their relentlessness in building more coasters. Think about it. They've got five parks alone with 10+ coasters, but yet, it doesn't seem to say much because they're still in need of a lot of money. Also, if they could provide better park service & hospitality for guests, more guests would want to come to their parks & spend their money, but most of them are being driven away because of rude employees, uncleanliness, & exorbitant prices for food, admission tickets & souvenirs.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
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2/14/2007 11:05:05 AM
^^Of the 8 parks you list the only one I have not been to is SFMW. Valleyfair might run circles around SFKK, but certainly not SFoG nor SFMM.
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
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2/14/2007 2:21:22 PM
^I prefer SFKK even to the watered down theme park experience that is VF. Heck VF even ruined a falling star, that is saying something.
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BobFunland
Posts: 7962
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2/14/2007 4:20:08 PM
Quote:
Axman said:
CF quality |
I would take SFMM or SFOG any day over Cedar Point or Knott's or Dorney. Heck even KK was pretty much on par with Dorney IMO (and I liked both)
Ninja is actually in the Cotton States Expo we don't have an America section. BTW the Brits settled in Georgia so if you are gonna be that picky at least realize that it can tie in
Quote:
They can afford to have very immediate themes for all of their rides and attractions. |
which translates to lots and lots of cement, trash cans, mulch and the removal of any trees.
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Animan1
Posts: 5394
Registered: 5/14/2003
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2/14/2007 4:30:26 PM
I know that I would take a day at SFGAm (and possibly even SFMM) over CP easily. I have not been to any other CF parks other than CP, but from what I know about them, I would rather go to both SFOG and SFGAdv before any other CF park.
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Axman
Posts: 1055
Registered: 10/4/2003
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2/14/2007 4:32:24 PM
^^What's wrong with mulch?
SFMM is the worst amusement park I've ever been to. I went 3 times, and each time, the park go worse and worse. The only reason I want to go back there is to ride X, (which was broken when I went, and broken at this very moment) and Tatsu. Oh, and to spit on everything!
Cedar Fair parks do have cement and trah cans, but they're proper and clean. I fair trade-off in my opinoin.
All of the CF parks i've been to aren't as bad as everyone says they are, and you all know it.
Message updated 2/14/2007 4:34:48 PM by Axman
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
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2/14/2007 4:42:13 PM
So because the parks Didn't start with themes makes it that every addition is called for and doesn't detract from the other rides or the area? That's going overboard. I'm normally the one that dose complain about SFI's lake of themeing while calling themselves a theme park. But I can't agree with you. The American Midway is a fair/boardwalk theme at SFOG you often found Booths or areas that were showcaseing different Cultures. So the Ninja Theme isn't that bad. Great American Scream Machine more then makes up for it. While i agree the Superman connection is a huge stretch the coaster is behind the building sand I personally don't think it detracts from the area any more then the Viper sign did.
I haven't been to any CF parks but have been to a number of other parks. The original SFI parks are good and they still hold some fantastic themeing. The only attraction in your SFOG argument I can't talk about Is Goliath which I doubt Kills the theme any more then the Drop ride did. I find the trains Colors to fit in well with the 50's look but the station is a bit massive for the area. That one change would have done so much.
Thing is most of SFI downfalls in themeing came with Premier. and allot of Cookie cuter additions and themed areas. But your arguments still lake a truly backed up opinion.
I'm easily the one on the site that loves to hate SFI. but Will have to wait and see. maybe things will turn around. Personally I would hate to see the name and what it originally stood for and still dose to a point be lost forever.
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BobFunland
Posts: 7962
Registered: 8/9/2001
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2/14/2007 4:48:27 PM
Quote:
Axman said:
^^What's wrong with mulch? |
nothing, I love Dorney's mulch (ask Hercules) but that doesn't mean it isn't still very prevalent and generic. Not much better than gravel..
Quote:
SFMM is the worst amusement park I've ever been to. I went 3 times, and each time, the park go worse and worse. The only reason I want to go back there is to ride X, (which was broken when I went, and broken at this very moment) and Tatsu. Oh, and to spit on everything! |
c'mon I find it hard to believe its the WORST! I went five times last year on three separate trips and never had anything short of an ok/enjoyable day.
Your spitting comment demonstrates one of that parks biggest problems: its clientèle. It also has crappy staff and crappy use of money, but you're not helping at all and as an enthusiast, that's embarassing.
btw X is running again
Quote:
All of the CF parks i've been to aren't as bad as everyone says they are, and you all know it. |
sounds like your problem is that you believe your opinion is fact and can't take into consideration that not everyone is going to share the opinion that you have... if we did this site wouldn't exist
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Animan1
Posts: 5394
Registered: 5/14/2003
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2/14/2007 6:04:33 PM
^ Thanks, Bob. You pretty much covered everything that I would have said. 
^^ And thanks to you as well, mrc. You're right, normally you are the one that bashes SF, but here you are actually defending it! Never thought I'd see the day...
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coaster05
Posts: 6207
Registered: 2/29/2004
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2/14/2007 7:49:39 PM
Quote:
Axman said:
All of the CF parks i've been to aren't as bad as everyone says they are, and you all know it. |
No we don't know it. If you have picked up anything about me it's that I state my opinion and it makes no difference to me if it is the popular choice. CP is good if thats your thing and I usually have a good time there. It is not in my top 10, but it makes my top 20.
IMO CF parks are overrated. I do enjoy there cleanliness, but I don't enjoy how sterile and robotic they feel. Add to that VF's use of breaks and gentle ride cycles and you essential have a park without the fun. SF has big problems but when you look at each park one on one they more then stack up to CF. SFOG and SFGAM to me are both better days then CP.
I guess I have to ask why would I just say I don't like a park as you say we are doing in your post. Everything I said about both chains is how I feel and my opinion is no more then that, so don't tell me it is wrong.
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Animan1
Posts: 5394
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2/14/2007 8:45:38 PM
Quote:
Axman said:
All of the CF parks i've been to aren't as bad as everyone says they are, and you all know it. |
Considering CP fanboys have been by far the most abundant group of fanboys that I have come across, I find this statement hard to believe. Dorney and Knott's are normally rated very highly as well, even if it's not on this site. I just don't get what you're saying...CF parks are generally rated very highly, not poorly, as you seem to be claiming here.
As I said, I have only been to one CF park, which was CP, and I will honest, I was disappointed. Way overhyped, in my opinion. That doesn't mean I won't go back, I just thought that some other parks that are generally rated below CP are better (SFGAm, BGT, BGW).
But beyond my own opinion here, I just don't find that your argument here holds any water.
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Scott
Posts: 2766
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2/14/2007 10:35:08 PM
Quote:
Axman said:
All of the CF parks I've been to aren't as bad as everyone says they are, and you all know it. |
Actually have to agree with him here. I personally think Cedar Fair has very well run parks. The CF parks I've visited are very clean, and well operated.
It's ridiculous that Cedar Fair is criticized for having to many trashcans. Enthusiasts would probably complain about the lack of trashcans if any were taken out.
I've found that Cedar Fair does a decent job landscaping their parks. When I visited worlds of fun I remeber seeing many newly planted trees around patriot and spinning dragons. I'd definitely take Cedar Fair's token landscaping over a parking lot coaster at six flags.
Message updated 2/15/2007 12:23:37 AM by Scott
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mrceagle
Posts: 13804
Registered: 6/9/2001
Rank: TPC News Minister
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2/14/2007 10:37:12 PM
Quote:
Animan1 said:
^ Thanks, Bob. You pretty much covered everything that I would have said.
^^ And thanks to you as well, mrc. You're right, normally you are the one that bashes SF, but here you are actually defending it! Never thought I'd see the day... |
That's all you have to say. I assume you agree with everything else I said? Are you also refusing to better support your reasoning for your arguments.
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Animan1
Posts: 5394
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2/14/2007 11:12:44 PM
Uh, what do you mean? I was agreeing with and congratulating you on a good post. You should know about agreeing with a previous poster...after all, you have done plenty of it yourself.
As for the support for my arguments (did I make any in that post you quoted?), see my last post just before Scott's.
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larrygator
Posts: 4654
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2/15/2007 12:03:42 AM
If I enjoy my day at the park then I rate a park highly. I enjoy different things about different parks so there is not a magic formula for me. With that said here is what I think of each CF park I have been to, while they were run by CF.
Cedar Point (4 visits) - one of my favorite parks
Knotts (2 visits) - better than average park
Geauga Lake (1 visit), Dorney (4 visits) - average parks
ValleyFair (1 visit) , MiA (1 visit) - below average
with SF I have been to many parks I consider better than average (SFMM, SFoG, SFGAdv, SFStL, SFGAm, SFFT).
Granted SF has many I consider below average (SFKK, Great Escape, the former SFDL, LaRonde) but SF has gotten rid of some of their weaker parks recently also
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